Join Dena Argyropoulou as she talks with Susan Piver, founder of the world's largest online meditation center and community, The Open Heart Project, helps meditation newbies and experienced practitioners alike learn to trust themselves, reconnect with their innate power, and navigate what it means to be human. You will learn: 1. How has the pandemic impacted one's meditation practice? 2. How can the feminine principle of Buddhism help one to become more compassionate to themselves and others? 3. How can one learn to trust themselves and share their gifts with the world? Susan Piver is a New York Times bestselling author of nine books and the founder of the Open Heart Project, the world's largest online only meditation center and community. She is a constant reminder of elegance, power, and wisdom. re/st your mind νιούζλετερ - διαλογισμός για να ξεκουράσεις το νου σου, ένα email που δεν θα σε αγχώνει. https://denaargyropoulou.substack.com/ GET DENA'S book "CLARITY OF MIND IS POWER: a 5-week journal to support your meditation practice and train your mind to see clearly." https://www.denaargyropoulou.com/book Produced, created and hosted by Dena Argyropoulou. Sound editing and mixing by Dimitris Misirlis at Matrix Recording Studio, Athens, Greece. Song "In a world" written and performed by Tiger Gang. Today's guest is Susan Piver, a NYT bestselling author of nine books and founder of the Open Heart Project, an online-only meditation center. FIND DENA re/st your mind νιούζλετερ - διαλογισμός για να ξεκουράσεις το νου σου, ένα email που δεν θα σε αγχώνει [https://denaargyropoulou.substack.com/](https://denaargyropoulou.substack.com/) GET DENA'S book "CLARITY OF MIND IS POWER: a 5-week journal to support your meditation practice and train your mind to see clearly." [https://theonefierceheart.com/shop-the-journal](https://theonefierceheart.com/shop-the-journal) Produced, created and hosted by Dena Argyropoulou. Sound editing and mixing by Dimitris Misirlis at Matrix Recording Studio, Athens, Greece. Song "In a world" written and performed by Tiger Gang.
Join Dena Argyropoulou as she talks with Susan Piver, founder of the world's largest online meditation center and community, The Open Heart Project, helps meditation newbies and experienced practitioners alike learn to trust themselves, reconnect with their innate power, and navigate what it means to be human.
You will learn:
1. How has the pandemic impacted one's meditation practice?
2. How can the feminine principle of Buddhism help one to become more compassionate to themselves and others?
3. How can one learn to trust themselves and share their gifts with the world?
Susan Piver is a New York Times bestselling author of nine books and the founder of the Open Heart Project, the world's largest online only meditation center and community. She is a constant reminder of elegance, power, and wisdom.
re/st your mind νιούζλετερ - διαλογισμός για να ξεκουράσεις το νου σου, ένα email που δεν θα σε αγχώνει. https://denaargyropoulou.substack.com/
GET DENA'S book "CLARITY OF MIND IS POWER: a 5-week journal to support your meditation practice and train your mind to see clearly." https://www.denaargyropoulou.com/book
Produced, created and hosted by Dena Argyropoulou. Sound editing and mixing by Dimitris Misirlis at Matrix Recording Studio, Athens, Greece. Song "In a world" written and performed by Tiger Gang.
Dena Argyropoulou 0:00
Susan, I am so, so excited you are here with me today. And thank you so much for doing this.
Susan Piver 0:07
I'm so happy you invited me. And I'm glad to be here with you as well.
Dena Argyropoulou 0:11
And before we dive deep into all these human existence concepts, I just wanted to ask you how you're doing and how have the past two years of the pandemic impacted you?
Susan Piver 0:26
Yeah. I'm doing fine. Thank you. I'm not just saying that I think I am. But one never knows. And I think the real answer for how has the pandemic affected me is I'm not sure yet. It's still happening. And so I think, me and you and others will hopefully be able to look back and make sense of what we experienced in a deeper way. But without knowing the overall impact yet, because it's still happening. I would say that it's been weirdly, okay, not this the suffering of the pandemic. And none of that is obviously okay. But there's some sense of the enforced slowdown. That while it has drastic financial implications, and relationship implications, and all sorts of really painful, terrible things. There's something to be found in the enforced slowdown if one is fortunate, and I am, I have the good fortune to be able to work from home and so forth. I end to take things away from my calendar. And my schedule has been nourishing, how about you? Have you experienced that?
Dena Argyropoulou 1:59
I have I have been lucky and privileged enough, you know, to be here in Greece and be home. And like you said, it's just weirdly okay. But also it's not okay. And I don't know exactly how to kind of deal with it. You know, I'm sure a lot of people are feeling the same way. And I do know that to tie it to our meditation practice, if I didn't have that. I don't know where I would be.
Susan Piver 2:35
How do you explain that? Or how do you think your meditation practice help?
Dena Argyropoulou 2:41
Well. It has helped me come back to what it is that is happening in each moment. And it has also helped me realise that because I'm aware of where my mind is, or at least that's what I try to do with our practice to be aware of where my mind is. For some reason, I have become extremely curious about observing, and noticing how other people's minds are processing what's happening. And it's so interesting to me to see how the things I take for granted in my limited viewpoint, how other people are seeing things and I'm like, wow, it just shocks me and how people are experiencing things and their perception. And so our practice has helped me become more open to being to accepting other people and wondering like, Huh, why I wonder why they see things that way.
Susan Piver 4:01
Isn't it amazing that our practice, which is basically sitting there, doing nothing, yes, somehow leads to this heart. This greater compassion for others and a willingness to extend yourself to others and put judgement on hold for a minute, or for a while. I whereas before at least speaking for myself before having a meditation practice, it was all just so reflexive and automatic. My responses to others were like, pre programmed, but somehow our practice introduces space between what you hear and what you do. You know, what people say to you and how you respond.
Dena Argyropoulou 4:50
It doesn't, you know, it's not something that I was actively looking for. It's just what's really, really intense for me, you know, right now at this period in my life. And there's a zillion other ways our practice has helped me, you know, through this, but yeah, like before, I was very rigid, you know, in my views, and I know what's right. And my, my worldview is right, you know, and not any more. And that. I don't know, it's just that heart opening, like you said, so I wonder how you have experienced all that too, or what other members of the Open Heart Project have, you know, shared as well? Yeah.
Susan Piver 5:38
Well, first, let me just say, it's amazing what you're just saying that I used to be rigid. And now I'm not. I mean, that's, that's huge. I mean, that's a really beautiful thing. And it's in the Buddhist view anyway. And doesn't it no one has to be Buddhists to look at it this way. But that's the ground of compassion. That's where compassion comes from. So it's not just, oh, this is nice. I'm not a jerk as much. But it's, it's powerful for the world. It's what the world needs. I'm not exaggerating. So it's, it's it's really great. It's really important, is a better word than great. And firm. I've heard from other members of the Open Heart Project, their version of this, which is, I'm more patient, I suddenly I sort of looked around in the middle of a situation that would normally have made me lose my temper, and I was not losing my temper some How did I become more patient, and people finding courage to enter into conversations or take steps in their lives, that they that were unexpected that they wouldn't have done, necessarily prior to their meditation practice. Because their compassion also extends towards themself. So yeah, I want to be kind to myself, I want to take chances on my own brilliance. And those things are great. And but I believe it was all summed up for me, by my mother, who said to me, like 10 years ago, you're a lot nicer since you became a Buddhist. Thanks, Mom.
Dena Argyropoulou 7:26
It's so true, how it just, I tie that to self aggression, because that's how I experienced it. Once I became aware of self aggression, which I still do. It's not like I'm not, you know, I don't do that to myself constantly, like, oh, I need to be more productive, or, you know, I need to what all the things and once I saw how I'm doing that to myself, first off, it completely broke my heart. Because I'm like, How can I be doing this to myself, and that was the opening, as well, that self aggression, but practising that with our meditation practice is huge.
Susan Piver 8:12
It really is. And, you know, as you know, the meditation technique is extremely simple. It's so simple that it can, it's hard to believe. And very, basically, it's you sit down. You place your attention on the breath. And you let your thoughts be as they are. And when you get distracted, you come back to feeling your breath. That's it, that's the whole thing. But there's something in that I am just going to sit here and be myself, not going to try to get anywhere, I'm not going to try to work on anything, I'm not going to try to become egoless or be a nicer person, even, I'm just going to sit with myself as I am. And when I stop efforting I'm just here breathing. I have all sorts of thoughts, and that's fine. But there's something about making extending the hand of friendship toward yourself making the gesture of friendship, because with our friends, we don't say you should do this, you should do that. You're an idiot. Why I can't believe you wore that. You know, we don't say that. But we say that to ourselves all day long. And in our practice, we notice that we're saying that we don't trust stop it or try to stop it. We notice that there's this running commentary and just stay feeling the body breathe. thoughts come and go, feeling the body breathe. And that in Buddhism is called relaxation. You just relax with yourself as you are and from that little seed of gentleness. So many things blossom, including what you're describing. Do you know that self compassion heartbreaking your heartbreaking for yourself over the unkind way that you speak to yourself that that's potent, as a lot of implications
Dena Argyropoulou 10:13
it is. And I remember talking to my grandma, she's she's still alive, she's 84 years old. And I come from a line of really powerful females, but that power was buried, you know, I had the experience of having to be this good Greek girl that shuts up and listens to everyone else, right? So I'm learning to undo that. But my grandma was she had hurt her knee. And I said, you know, grandma said, You really need to take care of yourself. And she said to me, I know, but I don't know how, Oh, wow. And I was like, whoa, whoa, you know, that was the beginning of me connecting the dots in my family, you know, and the lineage of the females. And I'm wondering how the feminine energy in Buddhism and how you've experienced have come into play. And I feel like it's just starting to surface now the power and I'm reconnecting with my power.
Susan Piver 11:23
That's such a great question. And such a rich and nuanced topic. I appreciate you bringing it up. How's your grandmother by the way?
Dena Argyropoulou 11:33
She's good. She's really good. Thanks.
Susan Piver 11:40
Yeah. In Buddhism, as well as other traditions, there are masculine and feminine energies described has nothing to do with gender. Or whether you're a man or woman or neither are both just energies. And in the Buddhist view, in or one of the Buddhist views, the female principal is acquainted with what's called emptiness. Which is interesting, empty doesn't mean void, or lifeless. It means all accommodating, just expansive, without boundary completely open. And men and women obviously, have that capacity. But it's associated with the feminine principle in Buddhist wisdom. So I think what you're describing at some increased gentleness towards yourself and others, is not necessarily at least speaking for myself. It's not necessarily because I'm like, oh, actually a really awesome person. Sometimes I think that sometimes I don't. But rather, there's a sense of accommodating and making space for all of my craziness, and all of my goodness, and everything, that's a mess, everything all that can be included in your practice. And in your journey, as a practitioner of whatever you practice, even if you think you're not practising anything, you can include everything. And I find that enormously heartening. Because in other things that I've tried in my life as a practitioner, there's often a sense of, this is what you can do, and this is what you should not do. And this is who you should be, and this is who you shouldn't be. And through the lens of the feminine principle. In Buddhist practice, all of that is goes away. And the question that remains is, who are you? And there's not who should you be, but who are you? So that's one very loosely described way. But I also feel proud, I would say, in the Open Heart Project, which the online community that has it has a lot of feminine principle running through it. Part of it is enforced because it's always been only a virtual community. We were practising together as a community on Zoom, like eight years ago, so it's only ever been invisible, which is useful. Because it, there's a sense of spreading is sort of it I don't know how to describe it. I I am the founder of the Open Heart Project, but I'm not a teacher going, this is what you should do. And this is this is first complete this level and then complete that level. Because I have no idea with how one would even do that. And be I just don't feel that that's the way. Although I myself was trained in that way, and I'm very grateful for my training. But the overarching view of the Open Heart Project Sangha is, for me personally as a teacher is, and this is how I was taught, by the way, so I'm not making this up, don't teach anyone, anything. Help them to discover something. That's the most brilliant teaching instruction. There is. I think that and again, in my training, that's what I was trained to do. So I want to claim credit for that beautiful phrase. And I think there's something very feminine principle about that. I'm not teaching you anything. I'm not like, I'm up here, you're down there. Let me lay it on you. And, you know, if you have any questions, come back. No, it's, let's try it, let's be in something together, which is much easier to do online. By the way, let's be in something together. Let me transmit or share what I have learned. And I would like to know what you are experiencing and what you have learned. And I trust you.
I trust you. Now you go forth and prosper. You, what do you discover now? That's what's important, not what I have to say. So I'm not trying to minimise or be all humble or anything, but I'm just saying, because it's the effing truth. Doesn't matter what I have to say. What matters is what you discover, through your own studies and practice. Does that resonate with you? Is that right? Does that sound right to you as a practitioner?
Dena Argyropoulou 17:01
That does sound right to me. And, you know, I was trained by you, I learned from you, you know, so, in every episode of this podcast, I referred to my teacher, Susan. So that does resonate with me. And, you know, for me, I had to learn and I learned through this practice, to discover things on my own. And to trust myself, that's it. And I did not trust myself before that.
Susan Piver 17:39
That's so great, you know, and I've seen that I see that, I can feel that, because we've known each other for a few years now. And it's been wonderful, really, really wonderful just to feel you're taking you taking your seat as a friend, as a teacher as a as dena. And it's, that's the best thing that we can do with our lives is take our seat as ourselves, I'm not trying to say that in a woowoo way, because the world needs a lot of help. But the way that we can help is by taking our seed, recognising our gifts, and then committing to sharing them, in whatever way makes sense to you. So she or sharing might be a podcast, my sharing might be writing a book, someone else's sharing might be loving their children or sitting in deep, meditative Samadhi for a month, you know, I'm just saying we share in different ways, but until you know, who are you? What do you have to give? It's, it's hard to offer your brilliance.
Dena Argyropoulou 18:53
It isn't. It breaks my heart, seeing that, you know, the females in my family weren't given an option to do that, you know, and I know a lot of other women have experienced this, you know, and especially in a culture, like the Greek culture, which is very traditional. You know, I was angry at realising how that trust in those options were taken away from us. So I'm processing that still. It's a lot.
Susan Piver 19:36
How are you doing that? And what do you do with your anger? I know that's a complex question to answer, but I'd love to hear more.
Dena Argyropoulou 19:46
Yeah, well, I anger is so hard and I would love to hear your insights on this topic as well. You know, it takes A lot of patience, it takes a lot of compassion, and a lot of pausing. So I don't, you know, like, start lashing out to all the guys in my family. So the way I'm doing that is I just keep coming back and reminding myself that I can hold space for both the fact that I am really pissed off that this happened. And I can hold space for the fact that they just didn't know any better. And, you know, just showing compassion as much as I can. And I just am committed to breaking that dysfunction in my family. That's how I'm processing it. But I'm still really pissed. And that doesn't, you know, negate the fact that I can be compassionate both can exist at the same time.
Susan Piver 21:03
They can be synonymous, actually. Right. Anger, first, just, wow, that is, so you're bringing it to your, you're bringing it to the path as they say, you're not separating your anger, your impatience, and your difficulty with compassion and your success with compassion, you're not separating those things from your practice. And that's the sign of a practitioner, I'm bringing it to the path, meaning I'm not like making everything all kittens and balloons and sweetness and light. But I'm working with it. Like, with a lot of grit. And I'm not, you know, because the spiritual journey in meditation practice, I don't have to tell you, it's not about feeling all peaceful. It's about finding some sense of peace within your experience, of anger, of impatience of lack of compassion, let's say, by accepting it own resting in it, feeling it, which is different than acting on it. But you can be peaceful with anger, not by becoming an angry, but by accepting that you are angry. And that's the, that's a great, great start. So in the advisory on a Buddhist view, because different Buddhist views have different ways of looking at something like anger, and they're basically three, the first view, you could say, and this is all very broadly described, is anger is afflictive. And it is, it causes great harm to you and to others. It's an afflictive emotion. And it'd be really awesome. If you could stop being angry. So do what you need to do to stop being angry. Sometimes that's good. But that's just 1/3 of the possibilities. Second view about anger is anger, can be a bridge of compassion between yourself who has been hurt by something and is therefore angry about it, and whoever you might meet in the future, who has also been hurt by that, and is now angry about it, too. Because you have allowed yourself to feel what you feel, you now have the skill to be compassionate towards anyone you meet in the future, who will be experiencing that. So while it's painful and unpleasant, and can cause great harm, for sure, when you hold your own anger as a look, I've been given something to help me learn about helping others, then it's different than afflictive get rid of it. So that's also quite useful and different actions relating to anger and all strong emotions are relevant at different times. So I'm not saying one is the right answer. That the third The first is afflictive Sia, the second is, oh, bridge to compassion hurts me, but could help someone else. Third is anger is a masked form of wisdom itself. It is not like oh, what can I learn from this not that kind of wisdom. But when you look into the heart of anger, which is a very uncomfortable thing to do, and you let go of the story of the anger, that's the key. I'm angry because this has been generations I'm angry because I could have been this or you could have been that I'm angry because my grandmother doesn't know how to take care of herself. That's all relevant and important, super important not to be ignored. But the anger itself is separate. From those storylines, again, the storylines are essential. But anger is just a burning energy. Some people feel it as a cold energy, but it's something in the body, or in the environment that exists separate from thoughts. And when you look, again, into the heart of anger, you find an extraordinary form of wakefulness. You cannot be angry and sleepy. So when you are angry, you're also very awake. It doesn't feel good. I hate getting angry, but we do it. Oh, god, it's so uncomfortable. Some people like it. But if you can say, okay, oh, my God, this anger now it's waking me up. What can I put it in service of, instead of trying to diminish it? Or use it to benefit others even? What is it? What spark? Is it lighting? So there's the three views of how to work with anger. And they're all three. Right? So there you go.
Dena Argyropoulou 26:08
Yeah. And it's anger is something I never allowed myself to feel for years. And once it, the gates opened, and it all flooded me. I was like, I don't know what the hell to do with this.
Susan Piver 26:24
What have you done?
Dena Argyropoulou 26:26
Well, one thing that I did was, I think one time we were talking on clubhouse, and you suggested Chod meditation? Chod? Am I saying that correctly?
Susan Piver 26:39
Yeah, that's how I say it. Okay.
Dena Argyropoulou 26:43
And wow, what a powerful practice that was, you know, and I'm not saying like, everyone should go and do that. But that's what I tried. And it was really intense. And it was really great and powerful, but I am just, it's it for me, it's a burning sensation, anger, I don't know how it is for you. And I don't know, I'm taking it and making it. I don't know, something creative. And I write a lot. And I have a lot of conversations. And it's not a difficult, it's not an easy thing. But But again, I will go to our practice, I would not be able to hold that space for anger if it wasn't for our practice.
Susan Piver 27:33
I'm so great. I'm so I'm happy for you. And I'm happy for everyone in your life, because they will benefit from your capacity to work with your interstate. That's really great. You know,
Dena Argyropoulou 27:46
I hope so. And I'm trying and, you know, I'm wondering how, like, from the way I've experienced it with, with other people in my life, and I catch myself trying to like, be like, but this is the way you know, like, like, you need to listen to me, and then I have to remind myself, I just need to hold that space, because that is more potent and powerful. And they will feel that as opposed to just my words.
Susan Piver 28:13
I agree. I agree. If you can embody it. No need to hear any words about it. In most cases, just as you say, and people are like, okay, whatever. But if you show up, grounded, willing to love connected to yourself, wanting to love them. That that's the best. No, no words need to be spoken. Yeah, unless someone asks, because then when they ask them, it's like, oh, cool. But otherwise, that tend not to be interested, which is fine.
Dena Argyropoulou 28:49
I've also been thinking about how this human suffering like humans, we are humans, so we will suffer. And that's part of the Four Noble Truths, as is expressed in the Buddhist view, and I I was wondering if you can like, just kind of walk us through the Four Noble Truths and what that means.
Susan Piver 29:13
Yeah, I'd be delighted. So yeah, the historic Buddha, according to the lore, and the history, at some point, practice for many years and tried all sorts of practices of his day, and then sat down under a tree called a Bodhi tree. And some sit here till I become enlightened not going to do anything, which is kind of our practice to Dana. It worked. He became enlightened, and then he went back to his community. And they're like, something's different about you. I'm making this part up. What happened? And lightened? Oh, although no enlightened person would ever say that. But anyway, somehow It became clear that he had glimpsed the nature of reality. And when asked, he said, I saw four things. The first Noble Truth as it's called, is life is suffering. Really, really unpleasant. Thanks Buddha. Um, but I, I believe the Pali word is or Sanskrit, I'm not sure is "Dukkha " which is perhaps more accurately translated as unsatisfying. Life is unsatisfying, meaning you accomplish something and then it's gone. Or you accomplish something, but it's not what you hoped it would be, or you lose something that you really wanted. And it was great that you had it, but now you don't have it anymore. And in other words, there's an everything is impermanent. And it's very hard to reckon with. So there is nothing solid and stable to hold on to. And that's terrifying. However, if you look around, you may see that that is true or not, it's up to you to figure it out. But life is suffering or unsatisfying, because whatever we build will also collapse. Okay, this second noble truth is called the cause of suffering, which is sometimes named as grasping, which has some sense of pretending that the first Noble Truth is not true. I am going to try to build something permanent and safe anyway. And I'm going to cling on to the things that I think are good, and I'm going to push away the things that I think are bad, which is very wise, you know, on one level, but if one thinks, well, that's going to make me happy permanently, then that's a problem. So the third noble truth is called called the cessation of suffering, which says something like, now that you know, the cause grasping, just stop doing that, and you will not suffer anymore. It's like, it hurts when I go like this. Well, don't go like that sort of vibe, obviously. Obviously, this is all more nuanced and complicated than I'm presenting. But, and then the fourth Noble Truth is called the Noble Eightfold Path, which is, Oh, stop grasping. Oh, well, how do you do that? And then fourth, Noble Truth, aka the Noble Eightfold Path says, This is how right view right intention, right speech, right livelihood, right action, and so on. So do those things. And then you can back your way through the Four Noble Truths. You can stop grasping, and you can stop suffering. So in a very tiny nutshell, those are the four noble truths.
Dena Argyropoulou 3:47
Unsatisfactory is like spot on. I'm like, really feeling it the past I don't know here. Like, I don't know how you have experienced this, but I'm just like, really? Like, what, what is the point of it all? You know, and trying to be quiet. Why? Why do we have to like, go through all this and feel all these things and what's happening?
Susan Piver 4:12
Yeah. Well, part of what you're doing is this podcast, which is so great. I'm not trying to say this mitigates all the confusion about why is everything so painful and worse, cruel and difficult. But you're doing something to bring benefit and that that is really important. And I don't know why it's like this. I just have no idea. But I trust. I trust the path that we're on, not to fix everything or even anything. But to bring something to fruition that can only be brought to fruition in Your life or in my life. And then we're not hearing it, then we're gone. And not gone. Because something remains. And I took not Han passed away on the 22nd. I'm sure many people are. And he's that he has so many things he said in the wake of his passing, have come to light that I didn't know I'll be not being a student of his or not having read a lot from him. And there's over and over again. What has been coming to light like on Instagram and stuff like that, is I'm not not here. I was, or as the great country singer Willie Nelson, once. This is my favourite thing ever, is the whole Buddha Dharma in one sentence. Thanks, Willie cosmic cowboy. "I didn't come here. And I ain't leaving."
Dena Argyropoulou 6:14
So you gotta love that. Oh, my gosh, I can work with that. You know?
Susan Piver 6:24
I didn't come here and I ain't leaving. Yeah.
Dena Argyropoulou 6:33
And you know, my mind just spirals into this whole like, lala lala home, blah, blah, blah and everything. And then, just like we do in our practice, just okay, snap out of it. And come back. You know?
Susan Piver 6:52
Yeah. But first before you snap out of it. You touch it with your attention. You notice it. Oh, yeah. You know, in a sense, that's a little mini hug. Okay. Okay, come on. You can have a seat at the table. You're really irritating. But hey, come on. You can sit here. Yeah, exactly. But I'm going to go back in the kitchen and keep making dinner. So there's a sense of bringing it in. And you mentioned when you were talking about anger, trying to be patient. And I also I hear you being patient with yourself, which is so like the ultimate wonderful hallmark of self compassion. And in the Buddhist view, or a Buddhist view, patience, which is very hard. For, for some people, it's the hardest. Mm hmm. Patience is what happens when you have no expectations, which, of course, we should have expectations, we should expect people to act right and do what they say and not be evil jerks and all that. But when we in the moment when we give up our expectations about how things should go or what is going to happen. If I say this or you do that. Again, that space opens up that space that we've been talking about off and on. Since we began speaking today. You re encounter that space. And yeah, so working with one's expectations, not to destroy them. But to also bring them okay. Okay, your expectation, okay, you can come into, but I'm going to hold you a little more loosely, please return the favour. is really useful in working with the craziness of our world.
Dena Argyropoulou 8:37
It's hard.
Susan Piver 8:38
Yeah. That's why this is a Warrior's Path. It's a Warrior's Path. And you're demonstrating it in the way you describe your practice. I'm not just saying that. It's very hard. But you know what I say to myself sometimes. What else are you going to do with your life? Try to find some nice, easy thing. Well, that could be cool. But I don't seem to be wired that way.
Dena Argyropoulou 9:09
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for being here and sharing everything. And as we slowly approach the end of our conversation, I wanted to ask you, first off if there's anything you'd like to share, that comes to mind anything at all.
Susan Piver 9:35
I'm just really happy to be in a Dharma community with you. I'm really grateful for our that we're on the journey together. Thank you.
Dena Argyropoulou 9:47
I'm so grateful for you too. And I would not have imagined like five years ago when I came across Your website that we'd be talking here today. And thank you so much for that.
Susan Piver 10:08
Yeah, congratulations on the work that you're doing. And you're so welcome.
Dena Argyropoulou 10:13
Is there anything you would like to tell maybe first time meditators or someone that's just entering the path?
Susan Piver 10:21
Yeah. Welcome. And if you want to learn to meditate, that's great. It's very important to learn from someone who has been trained to teach. The Open Heart Project is, I believe one of those places, it's free, you can sign up and meditation instruction videos, go out a couple times a month. And be patient with yourself and your practice and recognise that at some point, your meditation practice is going to become difficult and boring. And anyone who says otherwise, is lying. When it becomes difficult and boring, that's a threshold for something wonderful to begin to take root. So hang in there.
Dena Argyropoulou 11:17
I'm going through the boring stage right now.
Susan Piver 11:20
So while I'm telling you from personal experience, that's okay. Very little happens during meditation. Just say that straight up. But your whole life changes when you look back. So you meditate, you're like "Oh, this is boring. I'm not very good at it." All the things that most people think myself included, like, "Well, that was worthless. Oh, I guess I'll do it again tomorrow that seemed also worthless." And but then when I look back, my whole life has changed. So the fruits of the practice do not occur during the practice for 99.9% of people. They occur in your life, which is where we really want to see them. So don't look for fireworks. And keep it very, very simple. And then examine your life and see what you find.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai